The exchange about HBO began when Simon was discussing how the connection supported his acclaimed struggling dramaThe Wire.

I remember we got terrible numbers for season 3, and they never came back, Simon said.

I remember calling [then HBO executive] Carolyn Strauss and saying, Are we canceled?

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Credit: HBO

and she said, Oh, its a cute little number.

Dont worry about numbers.

Has it never been on TV?

Is the story worth telling?

Those days are I havent experienced that since.

And thats what happened at HBO.

He was no longer free to do that because there were too many corporate entities at stake now.

I dont want to suggest theres not really good work being done at HBO, Simon said.

Its happening becauseGame of Thronesis subsidizing all of us.

But its also happening because [Show Me a Herois only] six hours.

They understand thats not going to be the nextSopranos.

Joked Fontana: I told you to put a dragon in that show, but you wouldnt listen.

I had been pitching a show about prisons constantly, he recalled.

And youre like: What happened to that guy who went to prison?

you might imagine going to CBS and pitching this prison show.

And I was like: Theyre going to let me do anything I want.'

Entertainment Weekly is on the scene at ATX in Austin, Texas.

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