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Chuck McGill was not exactly an easy character to like.
He was priggish, self-righteous, bull-headed, and dismissive.
Chances are that you wished some form of comeuppance for Chuck.
But chances are that it wasn’tthat.
The results were tangible.
He was shopping for groceries again, and could even hold a lamp for a short time.
He never found it, spiraling further into chilling monomania.
(“In the end, you’re going to hurt everyone around you.
you’re able to’t help it.
So stop apologizing and accept it.
Embrace it.")
The battle for Jimmy’s soul, though, was still ongoing.
(Yet another piece of ground-laying track for Saul Goodman.)
She also more than hinted at a future, or at least future office, with Jimmy.
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Let’s start at the tragic end.
When did you decide you were going to kill Chuck?
Or rather, that Chuck was going to kill Chuck?
PETER GOULD:It happened during the season.
We had a choice, and Chuck had a choice.
Chuck was humiliated and there were a lot of choices that we could have made at that point.
We came to the conclusion that maybe this could be in some ways good news for him.
Maybe there’s a chance for growth, even?
Chuck has been dead set on avoiding any confrontation with the medical establishment.
Of course, the whole end of season 2 turned on that.
Everest barefoot and without oxygen.
And there’s really nothing more difficult than changing yourself.
That’s when it all falls apart.
Somehow, his pride keeps him from asking for help when he really needs it the most.
And the results of that are, to my eye, tragic.
But for Chuck, in a way, he was nothing without the law.
How much did Howard calling his bluff and removing him from the firm contribute to that downward spiral?
And he really had no family left after what happened with Jimmy, including that devastating last conversation.
What, in sum, led him to take his own life?
It’s a little bit of a watercooler question: What drives Chuck to do what he does?
As he said to Howard in the previous episode, he is getting better.
There’s nothing to say that he couldn’t practice law himself.
It’s only after he has that terrible scene with Jimmy that Chuck’s downward spiral begins.
As we were shooting the second half of the season, it became apparent.
We said, “Hey, Michael, it’s Vince and Peter.”
And Michael is on a speakerphone and he says, “Hey, fellas.
If this is the death call, let me pull over.”
So Michael had an inkling.I haven’t asked him about it.
I know the audience hates him, but he is just an unbelievable performer.
And also a fun person to work with.
Although I will say in this episode, Michael scared me.
He scared the hell out of me.
And Michael did all that.
There’s not a frame of a double in that whole sequence.
He was swinging hammers for hours and hours.
I found it wearing and exhausting, and also riveting.
What stands out to you about directing that brutal final scene between Chuck and Jimmy?
Gennifer Hutchison wrote the hell out of this episode.
This is actually the first time I’ve directed anything that I didn’t write.
One thing that I got out of it was actual appreciation for the writing.
And, of course, the way that Michael and Bob approached that scene was terrific.
Chuck was a very polarizing character with fans.
You put your finger on it.
It’s one thing to understand something intellectually; it’s another thing to understand it viscerally.
And the worse we made Walt, the more we found people making excuses for Walt.
And it was fascinating.
Just like in life, they say first impressions really linger.
I think that’s doubly true in drama.
Do you think the finaleand this season overallmight beg a re-examination or reconsideration of the character from fans?
All I can say is, as the season went on I had empathy for Chuck.
I certainly think he’s done a lot of terrible things, but he is a man in pain.
Chuck is left very much alone.
Those are great cartoons.
Will Chuck return to the show next season in some form?
I meant in flashbacks.
Boy, I want to work with Michael McKean as much as I possibly can.
I’m fascinated by Chuck.
How bad will it be?
It’s a hard question to answer because we haven’t opened the writers' room for season 4.
This is going to be the biggest kick in the gutmaybe he’s ever had in his life.
There’s a lot for him to unpack.
So I think this is going to take some time for Jimmy to unravel.
But Chuck also says: “In the end you’re going to hurt everyone around you.
you’ve got the option to’t help it.
So stop apologizing and accept it.
Those are words, especially for those of us who watchBreaking Bad, they ring.
It’s just my nature.”
And you know what?
If you know you’re doing bad things, just stop it.
That’s my PSA.
That holds no water for me.
Dramatically, in any case, I judge people by their actions more than the words or their intentions.
I don’t know what else to say about that.
But she indicates she’ll be sticking by his side, even when they clear out of the office.
“There will be a new wall,” she assures him.
There’s no question that Kim and Chuck are the two most important people in Jimmy’s life.
Once upon a time, there was someone else we knewMarco [Mel Rodriguez]but Marco’s gone.
Who does Jimmy have to hold onto?
What happens when he loses people, whether it’s through death or other ways?
There’s a lot that’s very sad about what’s happening here.
It seems like that’s the direction we’re going in.
Jimmy redeemed Irene, at a cost to himselfthe destruction of his elder law practice.
He chose one person over his career.
There’s bittersweetness here.
Jimmy is truly burning a bridge.
But now he is having to go public.
And through a lot of the episode, Jimmy is trying to have his cake and eat it too.
Jimmy is still eventually going to get the Sandpiper money, but he’s not getting it right now.
Can you talk about that epiphany?
Did she just realize she needed to break that pattern?
She works her ass off.
She has total commitment to the things that are important to her.
Frankly, she’s a workaholic.
And in season 2 especially, that was admirable.
I loved her for that.
And she has a choice to make.
Working while she was exhausted and driving while she was exhausted could have really hurt somebody else.
She’s not really thinking about the consequences just for herself.
She’s thinking, “Is my law practice worth some innocent life?”
For all she knows, she could have gone over the median line and hit a school bus.
She’s saying, “I’m going to keep working hard, but I’m not workingthathard.”
Nacho almost takes out Hector with a gun but the timing isn’t right.
Shades of last season with Mike.
Is that a fair assumption?
Gus seems to pick up on the pills that Nacho tampered with.
Does Gus realize he has someone on Team Salamanca who could be useful for future intel?
Boy, there’s a lot of different ways to read that look that Gus gives Nacho.
Gus is ironically very protective of the man that he hates the most in the world.
And Nacho almost has succeeded in killing this guy.
So how Gus feels about Nacho is a good question.
And I’m not sure that’s going to be good for Nacho.
What is the ultimate plan for Hector?
I mean, we know a little from the end ofBreaking Bad.
But saving a guy who he hates?
Something bad is happening.
It seems that way to me.
He is one of the greatest exponents of revenge since the Count of Monte Cristo.
Deep cut for you.
He wants Hector to die on Gus' terms.
Of course, we find later the situation ends up somewhat the reverse of what Gus really wanted.
I feel very optimistic.
That’s my hope and belief.
How many seasons do we have left?
Can you give us even a vague sense of whether we’re entering the final third of the show?
It’s something that we’re still working out.
Can you offer up a way-too-early tease for season 4?
What questions should we be asking in the long, cruel hiatus?
Boy, there’s so much.
What does it mean that Gus has his eye on Nacho?
Is he talent-spotting Nacho or is there something darker and maybe even worse than that?
Jimmy has made this new resolution in episode 10.
What is he going to do if he has to take responsibility for what happens to his brother?
Last time we saw him in the season premiere, he fainted at Cinnabon.
Shouldn’t that be on our minds too?
That should be on our minds.
I’m fascinated by Gene.
And I’m worried about Gene…
In some ways, Gene is like the outside of one of those Russian nesting dolls.
He didn’t scratch the wall “JM was here.”
The question is: Who is he going to be going forward?
